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HELP: Trouble for Nanday Conure Owners in PA, USA
Posted: 13 January 2008 12:04 PM   [ Ignore ]
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All, I’m not sure if i posted this is the right place… but I am posting this to plead for your help in getting this piece of legislation thrown out!

Like with Quakers, PA wants to ban the sell, ownership and release of all Nanday’s without a “grandfather” clause… meaning, if this passes… ALL Nandays become illegal in the state and the gaming people can come and confiscate all adored Nandays (as well as those who may be out in the wild) and kill them as pests. All Nandays will be illegal and anyone found to have one will have it removed and euthinized and likely will be fined on top of that.

Here is the information… I urge you, whether you are a Nanday owner or not, whether you live in PA or not, to write a letter to them opposing this riduculous and cruel law as soon as you can. Attend the meeting if you can and live in the area. This law, if passed, will only snowball… giving other states the same idea and first Quakers, then Nandays, what next??

Please take a few minutes and help get this thrown out.

Thank you for your time.

LEGISLATIVE ALERT - HEARING 1/27/08

THE ISSUE - CURRENT PROPOSAL TO OUTLAW NANDAY CONURES IN PENNSYLVANIA:

Hearing will be held 1/27/08 - 1/29/08
Pennsylvania Game Commission Headquarters
2001 Elmerton Avenue
Harrisburg, PA 17110-9797
(717) 787-4250
.(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)

There is a proposal presently pending before the Pennsylvania Game Commission to outlaw the possession of the Nanday conure. If passed, this law will not “grandfather” any Nandays currently kept as pets. The birds will become illegal. They will be subject to confiscation to be destroyed as pests. Quakers already are illegal in Pennsylvania.

A link to the PA Code section that they propose to amend is at the bottom of this alert.

This proposal which is now before the Game Commission seeks to amend PA law to prohibit the “importation, possession, sale, and release” of Nanday conures in Pennsylvania “in response to human health/safety and wildlife habitat health purposes”. Monk (Quaker) parakeets are already prohibited. There is no “grandfather” clause in this proposal - that generally means that Nandays already in PA would also become illegal and subject to confiscation and euthanasia as pests if this proposal becomes law.


ACTION TO BE TAKEN:

The Game Commission office will accept public comments at their meeting which starts on Sunday January 27th and carries through to January 28 and 29. A link to the Agenda for that meeting is at the end of this email.

If you oppose the current proposal in Pennsylvania you need to ACT NOW to defeat this proposal.

The Executive Director and staff of the Game Commission “recommend the Commission approve these changes”. Given that recommendation, unless voters in PA step up at this meeting to oppose this proposal, it will probably pass. Your “job” is to let your government know what you want. Once a law such as this is enacted it is almost impossible to get it repealed. Now it the time to act.

You (and any other bird folks you can round up) can appear at the Game Commission meeting to present comments in opposition to the proposal - preferably on Sunday the 27th so that you are sure to be given time to speak - but they may delay you to the 28th or 29th, so be prepared for that. Be prepared to submit your comments in writing as well as orally, in case you don’t get the chance to speak. Try to keep your written comments to one page.

Keep in mind these officials are just people doing a job. Don’t be afraid to appear at the meeting and testify. Address them politely, as human beings, and you should be able to make your points.

Generally people are given a few minutes, maybe 5 max, to make their points. Each speaker should be prepared ahead of time, with a short, focused, businesslike presentation, which they can read aloud. Be sure the presentations focus on the following two points (once you make those points you can let them know you are a human who owns and loves her pet birds, but that shouldn’t be the main focus).

The two points the Game Commission will be focusing on are the claims that Nandays threaten human health and safety and wildlife habitat. You need to be prepared to negate both of those claims. Keep in mind, if Nandays can now be claimed to be a threat to human health and safety, any parrot or other bird can be added later. Same for the wildlife habitat health claim. Do your homework and prepare yourself with documentation to counter at least these two claims.

Be sure those who testify for your position are well dressed and act professionally - I can assure you that the proponents of this bill will not be appearing in T shirts. Do not go into “I love my pet and this law isn’t fair for my pets…...” The Game Commission is not concerned with our love of our pets - they are charged with the responsibility of protecting the wildlife of PA, and unless you can rationally argue that Nandays don’t threaten human health and safety or wildlife habitat in PA, this law is likely to pass.

Written supporting documentation from the proponents which shows that Nandays threaten human health and safety or wildlife habitat in PA (if in fact they have any, other than their claims) was not available when I inquired. You can ask for a copy of their documentation at the hearing so that you can be given time to read, evaluate, and respond to it. Ask the Commission to give you a copy or that they mail it to you so that you will have time to address their claims. Ask the Commission not to adopt the proposal at this meeting, or at least to delay any vote to a future meeting to give you and other opponents of the proposal time to read and respond to any of the Commission’s materials that support their proposal. Remember, this bill has to be voted on by the Game Commission if it is to become law, and a vote delayed is a vote not taken.

I would expect the “human health and safe

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Posted: 14 January 2008 04:13 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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Can anyone tell me why this is happening?  Are there any feral/escaped/naturalized nanday conures anywhere in the US?  Certainly they cannot survive winters in PA and to quote the threat of disease as a reason for banning them surly opens the door to banning all parrots in any state?  Although I am for some regulation of all potentially invasive species I think this is a bit drastic???

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Posted: 14 January 2008 05:44 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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There IS a grandfather clause for pet birds ... just not stated. One of the admin on my board is a PA Wildlife Rehabber so went “directly to the horse’s mouth” so to speak. Pet birds are TOTALLY safe. It is breeders who are stating that they are not safe in hopes of having pet bird owners to jump on their band wagon. Breeders don’t want the law to pass because it’s hurts the purse ... they will no longer be allowed to breed. The reason for the law is to head off any potential problems the birds can create.

Here is a C&P of the post from the board and the link so that you can see for yourself (if you so desire).

There has been much panic associated with the proposed regulation banning Nanday Conures in Pennsylvania. Petitions are circulating stating that none will be grandfathered and pets will be confiscated. This is a rumor that IS NOT TRUE!.

I contacted PGC Jason Decosky, head of Special Permits and Wildlife Conservation in the Harrisburg (main) office of the PA Game Commission and this is his reply to my inquiry regarding grandfathering:

Quote:
Peggy,

The intent of this regulation was to prevent, by regulation, the importation of Nanday Conures into the Commonwealth. The PGC has done this with other species and through agency procedures grandfathered all existing animals in the Commonwealth as long as they had documentation that that animal was pre-act. The agency is not interested in existing Nandays, however in the interest of our native wildlife; we do not to allow the importation of more Nandays. A good example would be the Quaker or Monk Parakeet. The regulations did not spell out a grandfather clause but a internal letter stated that there was one. I hope this helps you out. I will be out of the office all week and will be back in on the 24th. Thanks Peggy!

Jason


Please Cross Post

  http://secondchancebirds.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4753

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Posted: 14 January 2008 07:09 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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I have a lot of problems with this letter saying there is grandfather clause. First how many people keep their documentation on how they got their birds. Whether they adopt or buy it they generally don’t keep records for long. So how can you prove that you have had your bird for many years as opposed to just getting it.

If there is a grandfather clause that needs to be stated in the law. Otherwise, what stops the officers from taking yoiur bird and destroying him and then go Oops!.

If they just want to stop importation then why doesn’t it state that. It says possession and sale also. This leads people to believe that their pets are up for grabs.

This is not concocted by breeders. Go to the game commission website and you will see that they intend to add the Nanday Conure right next to the Quaker parrot as a pest.  This means they are fair game whether you have had them for one year or twenty years.  I read their agenda today and it simply states that the Nanday Conure will be banned in PA. There is nothing there that says existing pet birds are safe.

An internal letter does no good. What’s to stop an overzealous field agent from killing your bird and asking questions later?

Does this mean I can’t take in Nanday’s and adopt them out anymore? I need clarification on what this means to the rescue efforts.

I also would be the first to say I wish parrots were not bred and sold as pets but this is not the way to do it. Yes you would have to stop breeding at the breeding level but not with just one species why not all parrots? Why just the Nanday? I would not trust this person that wrote this letter and made it sound like this is blown out of proportion.

Banning one or two species is not going to curttail breeding. All they are doing is causing a panic with Nanday owners.  I am one of them. I love my birds and I fear they will be in danger. My one Conure I have had for over ten years. I have no paperwork on her. She was given to me ten years ago and I am her thrid home. How do I know if they won’t just come banging on my door taking her.  I run a rescue so I am on their radar screen.

I don’t get it. Nanday’s can’t live in our climate. They make it sound like they can and that they are a menace to society.  Tennessee already has a ban on Nanday’s so there is something here that they are not telling people.

What potential problems can these birds create I wonder? There are thousands of stories yearly about dogs maiming and killing people. There are thousands of cats roaming the streets spreading rabies and killing wildlife and I don’t see a ban on them. This is just the beginning. And like I said, I wish there were no more breeding of parrots but you need to be very careful how you go about doing it. Rescues can run into a lot of problems when they start banning birds in their states. 

Maybe I am being paramoid but I don’t trust these bureacrats. Unless pet birds are written in as being safe I am concerned.

Roberta Weisensee
Pittsburgh Parrot Rescue

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Posted: 14 January 2008 07:17 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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Vet records document ownership as does microchipping. Not only do the owners have documentation but the vet also holds records on these birds. All papers are dated. The route of adoption is going to be brought up at the meeting by a PA rescue. But again, if a bird is a “known resident” in the state ... transferring the bird’s residency in an adoption would be much like if someone’s grandma had a nanday and passed away, the bird’s ownership could be transferred to the next of kin because the bird is a known resident pre-dating the law (if it passes).

Banning of species,  does curtail breeding. Maybe one species at a time ... but it does curtail breeding.

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Posted: 14 January 2008 07:19 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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Thanks for the clarification Sunny,  (M2mom)
Indeed, I have been notified that there will be a grandfather clause included.  That makes sense.  Thanks.

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Posted: 15 January 2008 03:43 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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There are 72 species of parrot known to have feral/naturalized populations. (http://www.cityparrots.org/media/suburbanparrotsversie.pdf) Should al those be banned?
Most of these species make their lives in towns and cities. Only surviving (and thriving) because man has altered the environment there so much that despite of the cold they can find enough food to survive and even reproduce. Outside urban areas they are usually rare. Any threat to native wildlife has never been substantiated.

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Posted: 15 January 2008 03:54 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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Love birds for example are known to go feral: http://www.flickr.com/photos/soulseye/with/36547627/

Should they be banned?

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Posted: 15 January 2008 03:55 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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As far as we can tell, there is no grandfather clause.  I wrote a letter and plan to go to the hearing on January 29th in Lancaster PA.

Here’s the contact info for anyone wanting to send a letter. 

This is scarey stuff—-once they ban a nanday who’s to say when the next species will be added.

WEB SITE:

http://www.pgc.state.pa.us/pgc/cwp/view.asp?a=481&q=153205

Commisioners & Officials Names:

Commissioner Russell E. Schleiden
Vice President Roxane S. Palone
Commissioner Stephen L. Mohr
President Thomas E. Boop
Secretary Gregory J. Isabella
Executive Director Carl G. Roe
Commissioner H. Daniel Hill, III
Commissioner David W. Schreffler
Commissioner James J. Delaney Jr.

Mail Comments to:

Pennsylvania Game Commission
2001 Elmerton Avenue
Harrisburg, PA 17110-9797

Email Comments to:

.(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)

Fax Comments to:

717-787-3292
717-772-0502

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Phoenix Landing Foundation
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Posted: 15 January 2008 08:31 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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In my 10 years of rescue work I see a lot. Most people don’t bother taking their birds to a vet unless it gets sick. So vet records do nothing in this situation. Let’s just say they decide to enforce this ban. They could go to vets and get records of every Nanday in the state and seek them out to destroy them.

Sorry but this has nothing to do with banning breeding of Nanday’s.  That’s something the USDA would have to do.  They are the ones that control pet stores and breeders not the game commission. The game commission is more concerned about wildlife and habitat destruction.  So don’t let them pull the wool over your eyes. This is about the bird escaping and setting up house and destroying trees, spreading disease, and becoming a nuisance.  That’s all this is about, just like with the Quaker parrot.

Read the law as it is written. It simply states that they are banning the existence of Nanday’s in PA. They don’t care about breeders. They want the bird gone out of the state for fear that they will escape our houses and set up shop in the wild. All Nanday owners will be in danger of them taking their birds and destroying them so that they can’t escape.

There is no grandfather clause, once again they are trying to trick you so that this passes. Unless they write it in the law that pet birds are exempt they have the right to kill your bird and there is nothing you can do about it. Unless we try to fight this with a lawsuit.

Make them prove that these birds can destroy the natural habitat and cause harm to humans.  Maybe in Florida or California but it would be impossible for them do so in Pennsylvania’s climate. 

I say we gather our forces and fight this legally.  Challenge this in court.  They imposed a 10% tax here on the bar and restaurant owners to cover the deficit in Allegheny County Port Authorities budget. The bar and restaurant owners are fighting this legally. Now I hear that this tax may be repealed.  The only way to win against these bureaucrats is to fight it. If all bird owners sit back and say Oh well! Then they can just start banning all parrots.

I don’t have a problem, personally, if they put a ban on breeding, but that’s not what this is. This law does not say there is a ban on breeding the bird it says “importing, POSSESSING, sale and release.” This is a death sentence for every Nanday Conure in the state.

Roberta
Pittsburgh Parrot Rescue

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Posted: 15 January 2008 08:59 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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To my knowledge there are not any wild flocks of Nandays in PA. It is ‘preventative medicine’ so to speak.

Everyone will have their own point of view from too much Big Brother involvement to ‘hookbills have more of a right than native song birds’. I’m not here to change anyone’s mind on HOW they think. It’s simply a post to say that pet birds are safe if properly documented and that they will be grandfathered in should the law pass.

As for people who don’t vet their birds, that is a whole other topic.

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Posted: 15 January 2008 06:35 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
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Indeed M2 Mom!  It would take anyone with a pet bird ten minutes to have their “guardianship” documented at a vet’s office.  I frankly believe that there should be a birth to death registry and yearly license for EVERY potentially invasive species in the pet trade.  I hate what is happening to the quakers all across the country and fear the same fate lies in wait for many other parrots in CA, FL, TX etc.  So many people are letting their parrots (and other invasive species) free in Florida that the Fish and Wildlife people are attempting to have people turn them in for adoption.  This is going to be a really big problem and if we do not address it now we will watch helplessly as thousands of parrots will be exterminated.

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Posted: 15 January 2008 06:49 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
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Thank you Marc. I hate what is happening to the feral QPs in some states as well. I’d rather see a law pass like this now than after there ARE feral Nandays to kill. It’s bad enough that the QPs are going thru it ... I don’t want to see any others suffer. The way “I” am looking at it is that if breeders can not breed or import new into the state BEFORE there is a problem the fate of the QPs will not be the destiny of the Nandays.

To my understanding the PGC want to pass the law because Nandays (specifically) have been found to be prolific like QPs in colder climates. The PGC want this bill passed BEFORE there are feral flocks so that the state does not have to go through the headaches that other states go through when QP colonies are being destroyed. Or the outrage many (rightfully) show over the pigeon shoots. Once the problem is there the animals have a right to life IMO.
“I” am simply (maybe stupidly) looking at it as less deaths to Nandays to stop a potential problem before it starts. I know that as to this date that feral colonies have not posed a problem to native wildlife but neither did the European Starling in the beginning. “I” as a parrot lover do not look at any hookbill as a pest; however if I step back I can see the potential in many years down the road.
I think we all know from QPs that they do not have to become a true hazard to start being killed. Cause a power outage ... you must die. Poop in the wrong place ... you must die. I would rather this never have to take place for the Nanday as it does to the QPs.

Did you read? They gassed some QPs and tore down a nest in WA :(

http://www.columbian.com/news/localNews/2007/11/11282007_Wild-parakeets-nests-destroyed.cfm

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Posted: 16 January 2008 08:34 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
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I am new to this sit4 but I came here to read about the the PA Game Commissions proposal to ban nanday conures. I own a nanday which I purchased last June. I am outraged at this proposal. I find it absolutely crazy. I would love to know what gives them the right to ban nandays. My nanday is a sweetheart. Just where are they getting that they can cause health problems to humans??????????  It makes me laugh that the game commission deems them as pests. Last time I checked bears were pests. As well as so many other wild and domestic animals that I will not begin to mention. I have a better proposal why don’t the game officers get off their butts and step away from the doughnuts for a day and tale action on people illegally killing eagles , foxes and other wildlife out there? Leave our birds alone. Problem is like many other legalities out there they just want to take things that we love and care about away from us. When they need to seriously worry about other things besides the nandays that we have and care for and love everyday. I will be at this meeting and I have every intention on voicing opinion.

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Posted: 17 January 2008 10:17 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
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Marc Johnson - 14 January 2008 07:19 PM

Thanks for the clarification Sunny,  (M2mom)
Indeed, I have been notified that there will be a grandfather clause included.  That makes sense.  Thanks.

 


Better check this out carefully.. There is no clause for the Nanday!
Please think about this very carefully . This is another Pa. ploy!
SandyJ.

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Posted: 20 January 2008 07:50 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
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There is no clause for Grandfathering Nanday’s.
Please check other sites out….
Or write to me, i can send you a link.
Whatever, this bill needs to be opposed
SandyJ.

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