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HELP: Trouble for Nanday Conure Owners in PA, USA
Posted: 22 January 2008 10:57 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]
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If you are concerned about the welfare of Nanday Conures already in the state, please don’t trust in letters of agreement re: grandfathering.

The actual language of the regulation being amended via this action is viewable at http://www.pacode.com/secure/data/058/chapter137/s137.1.html.

The regulation clearly bans any possession of the banned species.  This would place Nanday Conures in the same list as Quakers/Monks Parakeets (which are routinely removed and killed when found).  There is NO reference to grandfathering in any existing birds already in the state legally.

In fact, my contact with a local rep with the PA Game Commission thought they were ALREADY illegal to possess.  They were surprised when I told them I saw three for sale at local pet stores over the weekend, and they were most certainly NOT illegal to possess. 

Please do not pass up this opportunity to let them know how you feel.

Comments should be sent to .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address).  Comment should arrive by SATURDAY, January 26th, to receive the full attention of the Commiccion members when they begin their meetings on Sunday.

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Posted: 22 January 2008 05:26 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]
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Thank you for the information. Much appreciated…
I have done all that’s humanely possible to help the Nanday’s .
I’m a retired Proffesional dog Handler so, i’m well aware of what this ban will do not only to Nanday’s but to all our little people.
Be it fur or feather….I have sent all pertinent info. out to all my friends involved in Handling, breeding and judging.
Hopefully Pa. will get away from this nonsense and worry about more important issues.
Thank you , if i can be of any help just e-mail me.
SandyJ.

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Posted: 22 January 2008 05:55 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]
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I would have to agree that if there is no written grandfather clause that this bill should be opposed.  I cannot understand why the PAF&W would consider nandays a problem.  Good luck to all of you with your efforts to get this ban defeated.  I am sickened by the situation the quakers in the US are treated and would not like to see more death and destruction.

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Posted: 22 January 2008 06:00 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]
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Hi im new to this website and form the uk! call me daft if you want lol but what do Nandays look like and why are they trying to ban them again??

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Posted: 22 January 2008 08:52 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]
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For a description of the Nanday Conure, visit http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black-hooded_Parakeet

Pennsylvania seems to think they pose a threat to human health or safety, or a hazard to wildlife habitat.

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Posted: 22 January 2008 10:46 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]
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Hi Marc, i wish I that i could reason this out in my mind, i can’t!
In N.J. The electric company are putting nests up for the quakers. Do know they were killing!
All this because of Farmland? In N.J. it’s becoming a concrete jungle. No more Mom and Pop farms.
I can’t help but think some of the Whack-O groups are behind this… Do know these people are getting into dog shows!
It doesn’t look good for anyone at this point in time.
Just hope for the sake of the birds and families that this does not pass.

I’m From Worcester, Mass. Marc…God’s Country N.E.
SandyJ.

P.S.I didn’t hear that Pa. thought these birds were a threat to human health or safety. Kind a think Pa. ought to get their act together and worry about what’s going on in this country.. Like destroying the Forests! So many thing’s to consider about what’s happening in this world. Sorry I get angry when i feel helpless…

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Posted: 25 January 2008 10:57 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]
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New information is that they intend to ban any parrot if their numbers continue to grow in other states. Right from the horses mouth.

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Posted: 25 January 2008 11:49 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]
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Hi Roberta, This is unbelieveable!.I get a lot of info. from the ASA group, this one i don’t think they know of.
I feel like a displaced American. Can’t help but think, probably know that my rights were taken away a long time ago.
I wonder why I vote and why my representatives are not out there protecting my rights.
I have an idea as to whose behind all this and so wish they would concern themselves about much bigger issues.
Like the hunger going on in this country while we give tons of it away to other comp. Much more i could say but, i’ll get thrown off this list.
I’ll pass the info on. I’ll still do whatever i can.
SandyJ.

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Posted: 26 January 2008 01:16 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 24 ]
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An article that says that Nandays will be grandfathered. Last paragraph.

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/tribpm/s_549281.html

QUOTE:

Bird owners are raising a flap over a Pennsylvania Game Commission plan to ban a fowl some now keep as pets.
With phone calls and postings on Internet bulletin boards, owners of Nanday conures are trying to get a flock of protesters to a Harrisburg public hearing this weekend in hopes of blocking a rule that would prohibit the birds’ importation, sale, possession and release.

If the South American birds—also known as black-hooded parakeets—aren’t kept out, the commission claims, escaped conures might spread disease or form colonies that compete with native species for food and nesting sites.

Roberta Weisensee, founder of West View-based Pittsburgh Parrot Rescue and owner of two Nanday conures, said the game commission is just flapping its wings. Nanday conures can’t live through the winter, she said.

“They could never find the proper food and couldn’t survive the natural climate in Pennsylvania,” she said.
Tennessee already bans the foot-long green birds, which eat mostly seeds and berries.

“If they can survive in Tennessee, they can survive in Pennsylvania,” commission spokesman Jerry Feaser said.

U.S. birdwatchers spotted 920 of the birds last year in the wild, according to the National Audubon Society. Neither it nor the commission has an estimate of how many live in Pennsylvania, either in the trees or in cages.

With Tuesday’s scheduled vote approaching, the commission has a bird-ban precedent. The state prohibits the Quaker parrot, in spite of the Argentinian fowl’s Pennsylvania-friendly name.

Donald Blosser, owner of Pretty Birds pet store in Millvale, said he used to sell two to four Nanday conures a year. They were not popular enough to keep in his inventory, Blosser said, but he still thinks a statewide ban is unjustified.

“If anything was there to show this was a problem in Pennsylvania, I’d be there to help,” Blosser said.

Nanday conure owner Melissa Burkhardt said it’s not just the cold temperatures that would keep the birds from thriving.

“These are hand-raised birds,” said the Monroeville woman, who runs Sprite’s Avian Friends Endeavor, a bird rescue group.

“They don’t know how to forage for food. They rely on humans for everything,” Burkhardt said.

She and other bird owners said they at least want a grandfather clause in any ownership ban, so they can keep their conures.

A new regulation would not include a grandfather clause, Feaser said, but the enforcement guidelines conservation officers use would have one.

Someone doesn’t know Nandays very well if they think that they can’t survive wild in PA because of cold and that they were hand raised. Nice to know that the pets already in homes WILL be safe.

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Posted: 26 January 2008 06:50 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 25 ]
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Well, so far I have read that Pa. is concerned that Nanday’s escape and breed they could cause diseases to humans.
I think the concern should not be Nanday’s but, the illegals that have crossed over to the states and brought us some of their diseases!  I’ll take my chances and fight for the Nanday’s..
Think someone wrote they think their safe owning a Nanday.. I wouldn’t count on that one. Their trying to ban!!
No clauses in their bill!
SandyJ.

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Posted: 27 January 2008 12:18 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 26 ]
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http://local.lancasteronline.com/4/215722
Birds-of-a-feather raise a big flap
Owners of South American breed will flock to Game Commission meeting today. State wants to ban, not seize or kill, bird it fears could establish colonies in the wild.

By JON RUTTER, Staff
Sunday News

Published: Jan 27, 2008 12:19 AM EST

HARRISBURG - A Pennsylvania Game Commission proposal to ban nanday conure parrots is raising a squawk in Harrisburg.

Bird fanciers say it’s unfair to single out the green South American birds. “If they can justify banning the nanday,” said Chet Fuhrman of Columbia, “then they can justify banning any pet bird species.”

Numerous parrot lovers are expected to converge on Game Commission headquarters, 2001 Elmerton Ave., at 1 p.m. today during a session to gather public input.

But PGC spokesman Jerry Feaser said people are blowing the issue out of proportion.

Rumors aside, Feaser said, the commission has no plan to confiscate birds.

“A lot of this is based on the false assumption that there would be a roundup and euthanization of these animals. That is not part of this proposal.”

Nor is the suggested change much of a change, he said.

Prohibitions against the possession, importation, release and sale of “captive bred” animals from other states or nations have been on the books since 1992.

At that time, the Game Commission explicitly forbade transactions involving monk parakeets, also known as Quaker parrots, which have established feral colonies in Florida, Texas and New York.

Now, said Feaser, the commissioners are considering further clarifications that would ban nandays and some primates.

The Game Commission will hear more public testimony beginning at 8:30 a.m. on Monday and take a preliminary vote on its agenda items on Tuesday.

Feaser said the action must be publicized in the Pennsylvania Bulletin, as must a second approval vote, before the regulation would become law.

The main goal is to keep escaped or released nanday conures from gaining a foothold in the Pennsylvania wild.

The likelihood of colonization is remote, Feaser said, but not impossible.

“We’ve already been down this road.”

Parrots gone wild?
And it rides like a slippery slope, asserted Jen Johnson of the Lancaster County parrot rescue group Feathered Sanctuary.

“Clearly, it’s not as though nanday conures are descending on Pennsylvania and wreaking havoc on our wildlife habitat,” Johnson said.

Monk parakeets are considered pests because they build large stick nests in developed areas.

However, the National Audubon Society’s director of bird conservation, Greg Butcher, said he had not heard of any established populations of feral nanday conures.

Smoketown veterinarian John Hall was skeptical that the solitary nandays could survive a Pennsylvania winter or evade predators such as red-tailed hawks.

“The chance of that is very slim,” said Hall, who helps advise Feathered Sanctuary and the Stanley Parrot Foundation in York County.

Birds are the third most popular pets, after dogs and cats.

Parrot owners were preparing last week to counter possible claims that their pets threaten human health by noting that the birds have not been shown to transmit bird flu or commonly carry other diseases.

Hall said none of the 250 to 300 nanday conures he has examined over the past five years has harbored psittacosis, a bacterial disease transmissable to humans.

But Stephanie Bell, a senior cruelty caseworker with People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals, said avian health is a key argument against cooping up an estimated 10 million pet birds in the United States.

“No bird is designed to live in a cage” or have its wings clipped, she said.

Bell said birds are intensely social creatures that when confined exhibit obvious signs of physical and mental stress, such as biting and feather pulling.

PETA supports the Game Commission initiative but is not pushing it, Bell said.

“People who know PETA’s stance on captive birds have made assumptions.”

Feaser said the pet industry sparked the proposal.

“We were approached by several reputable pet stores and dealers” seeking clarification of the law, he said.

Irate parrot fanciers from Pennsylvania and surrounding states were mobilizing over the Internet last week.

“People love their pets,” Johnson said.

Caging raises “a little bit of an ethical issue,” Hall acknowledged. But parrots, which are intelligent and long-lived, form strong bonds with responsible caretakers.

“These birds definitely want to be with you,” Hall said.

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Posted: 27 January 2008 12:05 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 27 ]
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Caging a bird, an issue that Pa. is concerned about. I truly doubt that is true.
I think about what’s going on with the Nanday’s and wonder “what became of my rights?”
Sounds like i’m no longer free in America..
Caged birds, what’s wrong with that? Most of us have large cages, plenty of toy’s and a diet that beats ours
Eleven dollars for three pounds of food, twenty five for Roudy Bush . I could go o and on..
My birds are out of their cages most of the time and yes their wings are clipped.
Why, would i not clip wings?I clip their wings because if a door opened they aren’t going very far. So they can’t get into the farmers crops(i live in a concrete jungle)
Or cause diseases to the community… This is a comedy of Errors in Pa.. I’m sure others will follow.N.J. will get on this band wagon. They love paperwork in this state, most of all they love to cause us grief

My dogs are crated at dog shows.. No rep. comes up to me and say’s “Hey! that’s cruel.( I can see 500 dogs running around show grounds!)Their free at home but, at night into crates they sleep.
If i had a fire .... wouldn’t it be easier to throw crates and cages out a door or window?
Pa. get with the program and by the way. Stop the dog shows in Pa.. because we all crate and just think of the money you’ll lose if we don’t show in your State!!!
SandyJ.

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Posted: 27 January 2008 12:33 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 28 ]
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SandyJ. - 27 January 2008 12:05 PM

Caged birds, what’s wrong with that? Most of us have large cages, plenty of toy’s and a diet that beats ours
Eleven dollars for three pounds of food, twenty five for Roudy Bush . I could go o and on..
My birds are out of their cages most of the time and yes their wings are clipped.
Why, would i not clip wings?I clip their wings because if a door opened they aren’t going very far. So they can’t get into the farmers crops(i live in a concrete jungle)
Or cause diseases to the community… This is a comedy of Errors in Pa.. I’m sure others will follow.N.J. will get on this band wagon. They love paperwork in this state, most of all they love to cause us grief

My dogs are crated at dog shows.. No rep. comes up to me and say’s “Hey! that’s cruel.( I can see 500 dogs running around show grounds!)Their free at home but, at night into crates they sleep.
If i had a fire .... wouldn’t it be easier to throw crates and cages out a door or window?
Pa. get with the program and by the way. Stop the dog shows in Pa.. because we all crate and just think of the money you’ll lose if we don’t show in your State!!!
SandyJ.

I can’t believe you are comparing a domesticated dog vs a wild (and yes parrots are still wild) animal. I can’t believe you are comparing a few hours here and there being crated to a lifetime in a cage (especially as long lived as birds are).

God loved the birds and invented trees. Man loved the birds and invented cages.  Jacques Deval

IMPO, birds were never meant to be caged. There are some animals that simply are not suited to captivity and parrots are one of them. You talk about your rights ... what about a parrot’s rights to fly, to forage, to procreate and raise a family instead of self - destructing like so many do in captivity? Do your dogs rip out their fur from living in your home? Do they chew holes in their chest? Do they bite out of frustration once sexually mature?

If more people really cared about the rights of parrots you wouldn’t be finding so many unwanted ones. People get them because it’s ‘their right to own’ instead of learning before hand the time and involvement it takes to be a COMPANION to a bird. What about a parrot’s rights to have an educated owner and a home that lasts a lifetime?

If people’s pets in the state of PA are safe and rescues’ Nandays are safe ... I’m in full support of one less species being bred and sold in 1 more state. I hope it starts happening in my state too.

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I know what the caged bird feels, alas!
  When the sun is bright on the upland slopes;
When the wind stirs soft through the springing grass,
And the river flows like a stream of glass;
  When the first bird sings and the first bud opes,
And the faint perfume from its chalice steals—
I know what the caged bird feels!

I know why the caged bird beats his wing
  Till its blood is red on the cruel bars;
For he must fly back to his perch and cling
When he fain would be on the bough a-swing;
  And a pain still throbs in the old, old scars
And they pulse again with a keener sting—
I know why he beats his wing!

I know why the caged bird sings, ah me,
  When his wing is bruised and his bosom sore,—
When he beats his bars and he would be free;
It is not a carol of joy or glee,
  But a prayer that he sends from his heart’s deep core,
But a plea, that upward to Heaven he flings—
I know why the caged bird sings!

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Posted: 27 January 2008 03:07 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 29 ]
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I don’t think your post deserves a response

Truly don’t want to start an arguement here.. Remember dogs were once wild.
My concern is not over what you think of my post.. I’m concerned that this law will be passed.
God did create trees for birds… Wonder why my area has become a concrete jungle. Should it continue their won’t be anymore
Migrating birds to rest and feed for the long trek(13miles) across the bay… No more Revenue from birders!
SandyJ.

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Posted: 28 January 2008 02:34 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 30 ]
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I have sent the following comment to the PA Game Commission:

Pennsylvania Game Commission
2001 Elmerton Avenue
Harrisburg, PA 17110-9797

RE: Proposed amendment of 58 Pa. Code §137.1 (Relating to Nanday Conures)

Dear Commissioners:
  I have read the proposed amendment and also spoken with Jason Decoskey regarding the purported need for such a change.  Additionally, I have read the comment of Jerry Feaser regarding the survivability of Nanday conures in Pennsylvania as published in the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review on January 26, 2008.

I oppose this proposed ban because it appears to be based on irrational fear, under the guise of being pro-active, rather than actual science and statistics.  Mr. Decoskey indicated to me that the main concern was to prevent the birds from ever becoming a problem in Pennsylvania by banning them early enough to keep them from becoming established.  His concerns were linked to the Quaker parrot which has become a problem in some northern urban areas.  He indicated that there was currently no population of these birds in Pennsylvania, nor had there even been a single sighting in the wild, although there are several hundred living in Florida.  As justification for the proposed ban he noted that Tennessee had already imposed a ban.  He did not however, indicate whether Tennessee was having a problem with these birds which caused them to ban them.  In further justification he indicated that a zoo in Oklahoma was keeping a population of Nandays outdoors and that if they could survive in Oklahoma, which has harsh winters, they could survive here.  Likewise, Mr. Feaser noted that if the birds could survive in Tennessee they could survive here.

First, concerning the comparison to the Quaker parrot, the Nanday conure has completely different nesting habits than do the Quakers.  Nandays are cavity nesters, they would not build the types of stick colonies on utility poles that have caused a problem in other areas with the birds chewing the insulation on wires.

Additionally, Nandays are not native to as temperate a climate as the Quakers, thus their ability to survive Pennsylvania winters is highly suspect.  Nanday conures are native to regions where the low temperatures rarely reach down to the high 30’s. Pennsylvania winters are considerably more harsh than that. The fact that a zoo in Oklahoma has managed to keep a small population alive outdoors has no bearing on whether such birds could survive a winter on their own, unless of course the zoo isn’t feeding them and they are foraging on their own.


I examined the National Audubon Society’s Christmas Bird Count results, as well as the Cornell Laboratory of Ornithology Backyard Bird Count results going back to the year 2000. These bird counts are created by using thousands of observers across the country during a specific period each year.  Most of the observers are extremely interested and knowledgeable about birds. If Nanday conures were moving north out of the semi-tropical regions of Florida or west from the coast of California, they would have been noticed in the counts.  As you must be well aware, parrots can be raucous, gregarious creatures, they will not slip quietly by in the dead of night. I note that no Nanday conure has been sighted anywhere other than in Florida and California.  Obviously the climate of Florida is nothing like the climate in Pennsylvania. The California sightings have all been on the Pacific coast, which enjoys considerably more mild winters than Pennsylvania.  Conures have not been observed in Tennessee, so while Mr. Feaser’s comment about survivability may be correct, “that if they could survive in Tennessee they could survive here,” there is no evidence at all that they can survive there.

Parrots are popular pets.  I have lived in Pittsburgh, since 1985 and, as a bird owner, I often look at the classified pet ads.  Nanday conures have always appeared for sale as they have in Cleveland, Iowa City and Chicago when I lived in those cities. There are hundreds of pet Nanday conures in Pennsylvania and have been for decades. No doubt some of them over the years have escaped the confines of their homes into the environment. Despite this, no population has established itself here. The southern populations in Florida have not advanced even to the northern tier of that state, let alone to states farther north.

For the above reasons I urge the Commission reject the proposed amendment of 58 Pa. Code §137.1.  Should the Commission see fit to adopt the proposed amendment despite the lack of any objective scientific evidence demonstrating a need for such a ban, I urge the Commission to insert a grandfather clause into the regulations specifically allowing Nanday conure owners to maintain possession until the end of the birds’ natural lives.  Such a provision would ease the minds of hundreds of pet owners who have visions of game wardens breaking down doors and carting off the family pets, some of whom have been with them in excess of 20 years.  While Mr. Decoskey has assured me that an internal memorandum would be generated allowing people to keep pets already in their possession, so long as they can prove possession prior to the effective date of the regulation, there is no guarantee that such a memorandum would be generated, nor would the proposed regulation require it. Additionally, I would suggest that any new regulation have an effective date no less than 90 days from the date of passage so that existing owners have time to document their animals presence in the Commonwealth prior to the amendment.

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